Perspective Part 3 - The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens

"The Crucible of Doubt: Reflections on the Quest For Faith" is a book by LDS-faithful Terryl and Fiona Givens. The book is about perspective and is geared for those who wish to remain in the Church. You can get an overview of the book from:

Mormon Stories Episode 496 (Aug 2014)
Book Review by Julie Smith (Aug 2014)
FAIR Podcast (Sept 2014)

Here are my notes from Mormon Stories Episode 496 (Aug 2014):

Introduction (starting at 35:10):

• What kind of changes can we make to remain in the Church.
• There is little we can do to alter the Church, its history, etc.

Ch1. Reason (starting at 36:20):

• Few decisions we make rely solely on reason.
• Skeptics say--and they're right--that only science can lead to truth.
• Many people feel there is something transcendent.
• We need to use reason and emotion to make decisions.
• Gospel truths add beauty to life.

Ch 2. Role of Life's Incompletion (starting at 44:30):

• We turn to religion, as an opiate, to answer all our questions. We want a map, but we get a compass.
• Faith is not an electric blanket; it's a cross.

Ch 3. Role of the Church (starting at 49:50):

• The question for doubters is: should we remain?
• The Church offers a geographic COMMUNITY modeled on the family.
• The Church offers ORDINANCES because the (Mormon) heaven is relationship based and the ordinances form relationships (Note: the Protestant view is that heaven is moral requirement based)
• We go expecting to receive. (And if we do, we'll be disappointed) What do we bring to the alter of God.

Ch 4. Use and Abuse of Scripture (starting at 55:80):

• There are inconsistencies in scripture.
• The Book of Mormon had editors: the author of each book and a final editor, Mormon.
• We tend to take the scriptures literally, but they probably should not be taken so literally (at 58:28).
• The scriptures are fallible (at 1:00:14). We must read with discernment (and not with textual criticism).
• John: Most Mormons would view the Church as predominately divine and occasionally marred by the flaws of men. But the Church is mortal and is man's attempt at understand the divine.
• John: Most Mormons view the scriptures as truth and the First Presidency as "good" meaning authoritative or just below scripture.
• John: scripture is the author's best attempt to understand God.
• Terryl agreed with John on above three items.  The Joseph Smith Papers shows editing of revelation to understand God.  Joseph Smith seeks greater understanding demonstrating honesty, not deception.
• Joseph Smith was only a prophet when he spoke as a prophet. "Some revelations were of God, [some of men], and some of the Devil." (at 1:05:50)
• Scripture is fallible because men are fallible.
• John: We are trying to discern God's will imperfectly.
• Fiona: Agrees with John that revelation was collaborative.

Ch 5. Perils of Hero Worship (starting at 1:09:45):

• Humans have a need to create heroes, something to worship.
• Heroes (prophets) release us from responsibility.
• In at ecclesiastical sense, they (prophets) are men.
• Heroes have feet of clay.
• Brigham Young quote: afraid we will blindly follow the church leaders.
• Church leaders are fallible.
• Temple Oath: can't be vocal critics of the leaders.
• John: has not the Church fostered hero worship and is it wrong to criticize?
• Fiona: our leaders should point us to Christ. Church culture promotes hero worship.
• Terryl: The Brethren should present their human side.
• Fiona: There seems to be a chasm between us and the Brethren, but they are not historians and they were raised on the same manuals.
• Terryl: The leaders make mistakes. We need to lower our expectation of the infallibility of  prophetic direction (at 1:24:15).
• Okay to express constructive criticism of leaders, no venting.

Ch 6. Ring of Pharaoh (starting at 1:28:55):

• The chapter is a continuation of chapter 5.
• Not every calling is inspired.
• Delegating means God gave the authority to make decisions. But not every decision is in line with the Lord's will.
• We should sustain (follow) our leaders unless asked to do something wrong or against our conscience.
• John: No blind obedience?
• Terryl: Correct. We need to determine of it's the mind and will of God or not.
• For the Priesthood Ban (of Blacks), time proved some to be right. Others will bear the burden of blind obedience.
• We need to be true to our conscious first and then to an institution. 
• If you go contrary to the leaders (and are right), the God will alchemize any suffering.

Ch 7. Of Mormons and Monopolies (starting at 1:39:55):

• John: the Church is a Universalistic Church
• The Church doesn't have a monopoly on truth.
• God's favoritism of "We are the only true church" has negative connotation with others.
• There are many Godly people around the world.
• D&C 10:52 shows the Church is not the institutional Church but the Universal Church
• John: "We're the best and others have some truth" needs to be "no one can say we're better."
• There needs to be a shift from the Church has the truth to the Church has the temple ordinance, the portal to salvation (at 1:45:22).
• The Church has the priesthood keys and ordinances but not superior status to other traditions.

Ch 8. Finding Your Watering Hole (starting at 1:45:50):

• Don't expect to return from Church replenished and with new knowledge. You need to find a source independent of the Church structure (called "Supplementing"). The source (music, literature, etc.) need not be from the Church. 
• Joseph Smith read from various sources.
• The Church is a community, a source to provide service, a source to access the ordinances.
• We find in our homes the time to study that which inspires us and reveals our discipleship path.

Ch 9. [Skipped]


Ch 10. Silence and Solitude (starting at 1:49: 40):

• It's OK to feel like the heavens are closed, especially in times of need.
• Mormons  are told if they ask God, he will answer.
• God reaches out to us in different ways. We should not tell God how to answer.

Fiona quoted this statement from George McDonald:

[Even] If there is no hereafter, I would live my life believing in a grand thing that ought to be true if it were not. No facts can take the place of truths; and if these be not truths, then it is the loftiest part of our nature a waste.  Let me hold by the better than the actual, and fall into nothingness off the same precipice with Jesus and John and Paul and a thousand more, who were lovely in their lives, and with their death make even the nothingness into which they have passed like the garden of the Lord.  I will go farther, and say I would rather die forevermore believing as Jesus believed, than live forevermore believing as those who deny him.

I evaluate The Crucible of Doubt in Perspective Part 4.